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SC Small Business Chamber Webinar: New Federal Rules Can Save You $1,000s on Health Insurance

Video Transcript:

Frank Knapp Okay, welcome, everybody. Thank you very much for for joining us here today. I do appreciate it. I'm Frank Knapp, I'm president and CEO of the South Carolina small business Chamber of Commerce, which I co founded in 2001 of the most important issues our chamber has worked on for the 20 for the last 21 years is the cost of health insurance. We supported the Affordable Care Act when it became law and support it today, because it has enabled 10s of millions to have affordable health insurance. The one change we have advocated for was to lift the income cap on who qualify for federal Premium Assistance, the provision that makes health insurance affordable, we are happy to say that the Biden administration has done exactly that. And because of this rule change, South Carolinians and consumers across the country are finding that the cost of health insurance policy through the Affordable Care Act marketplace has dropped dramatically. That's why you are here today to find out how much money you can save on health insurance. We have worked with an insurance advantage for seven years and our continued effort to save small business owners and their employees money. So let me introduce to you Ben green, a partner in insurance advantage, who is the expert on health insurance. Ben, take it away. Frank, thank you very much. And I want to I want to welcome everybody today to the webinar on employee benefits and health insurance after the AARP act that was passed on March 11. And Frank just want to thank you once again, for letting us talk a little bit and educate folks a little bit more about health insurance and and hopefully bring some value to your to your, your your wonderful chamber. So my name is Ben green, I'm president and CEO of insurance advantage. And the the agenda today, we're going to give you a little bit of a background on who we are. And then we're going to give you a little bit for those of you all that don't deal with the with the ACA plans with the marketplace every day, which hopefully you do not. Ben Green So a little bit about me. So I'm, I'm Columbia native. And we started insurance advantage in 2010, with the idea of providing affordable health insurance to the Hospitality Group groups, especially in South Carolina, in Charleston and Columbia, hotel employees, bar owners, things like that, folks like that, that they needed affordable health insurance. And we've kind of grown from there, I get, I have a BA in finance and got an MBA at University of South Carolina. And that's wonderful. But none of that taught me how about insurance or employee benefits actually. And so it wasn't until we founded the company in 2010, that I really learned what was available and what was not available. Frank Knapp All right, thank you for that. Thank you for the question. Um, Does anybody else have any questions right now? If you would like that, you don't want to ask him, you can put it in the chat now read them. Or you can unmute yourself and ask Ben directly. Stig Hi, Ben, this is sting again. I Peter, I that talk to you while you were talking? I want to interrupt but thanks for that answer. That was great. As you were talking, I also pulled up our current plan to compare. My follow up question is How would you operationalize this for an organization? Would if we wanted to go with you? And like we're seeing, would, would your team work with our staff one on one to identify their levels and their needs and a different, you know, BCBS bronze for silver to whatever person to person? Or would there be like, a portfolio packet that would be offered to, you know, 2020 ish employees, you have to choose between those options? How would that look? Yep, yep, steak. So we would, we would take a look. So do you guys have a group health insurance plan right now? Grandfather? One, I assume we have a grandfather one with BlueCross BlueShield, we have an option for traditional PPO, and then a high deductible plan that's paired with a health savings account? Yeah, yeah, with our current benefits provider, you know, intermediary company, we always look at our plan is grandfathered, as compared to other ones from Blue Shield, and other providers. And every year, our grandfather one comes in lower as a better rate. But we I hadn't seen a presentation like this, which, you know, just got me thinking. Yep. Yeah. So Stig, we would take a look at your current plan design for your current plan. And then we would also want to take a look at your, you know, at the kind of the average salaries of your employees, you know, whether or not they're single, what, you know, what their taxable household is, whether or not their spouses or partners have access to health insurance, and they can also access that insurance. And so it's, it's really kind of a quick individual conversation, or a quick kind of panorama based on your current census. And I can tell you, you know, in five minutes whether or not it makes sense. Ben Green Yeah, yeah. So we can, we can absolutely take that up offline to dig into your particular situation. Okay, I've got one final follow up. And I think this idea short answer, hopefully, it looks like the the RPA has done a lot to help increase the tax credits. How long do you think this will stay in effect? Is it a one year for a response to COVID? Will it be in effect for five years, and then sunset will be around forever? Great, great question. That's a great question. It is in effect until 20, the I believe, the end of 2022. At least, we anticipate that it may be extended. But for that you would have to speak with Frank or, or, or governor, McMaster or, you know, President Biden or somebody like that to, you know, figure out what what's going to happen in Washington, essentially, to either extend it or sort of let it let it sunset. But for the time being, it is in place until we we anticipate until the end of 22 at the very least. Stig And Ben, the reason is because the extra money was appropriated in the American rescue plan, is that correct? Ben Green That's correct. Stig Okay, and so once that money is used up, then they'll need to replenish that fund. And Ben, Would you do me a favor and go back to your original, your first slide just so we can see that first slide with your information on it? Yeah, that'll work too. So I thank you for that. I. I tell you a quick story. While we're waiting, see if somebody else wants to ask a question. In this, you know, going back to when we first founded the second small business Chamber of Commerce, we went around the state. And we talked to small businesses. And the number one concern was the cost of their health insurance, whether it's group health insurers, or individually, that the cost back in the in the 2000s, were doubling every year, the premiums we knew is unsustainable. And that's why it was important to try to figure out to come up with another vehicle to make health insurance more affordable. So that's why we were supportive of the Affordable Care Act, and and what it achieved. And, of course, over the years, that morphed a little bit, and that's why we needed to get lift that 100 400% federal poverty level cap. And, you know, so we know that a lot of small businesses, when I talked to you yesterday, you know, they they offer very generous benefits to their employees and pay 75% of the cost of the health insurance. And they do it to retain employees. And I said, Well, that's good. But you know, maybe there's an alternative, if we can get the Affordable Care Act to a place where there they can your individual ploys can pick up subsidies from the federal government to even reduce their cost. And you wouldn't have the 75% cost went to be better said, Oh, absolutely. So we're moving in the right direction, here with the Affordable Care Act. And and we're very much appreciate the Biden administration, using the funds out of the American rescue plan to at least for for the next year and a half to have extra compensation or extra subsidies for people to make health insurance more affordable. Um, what other questions are out there anybody else put anything in the chat room or anything? Ben Green else? Rachel in Somalia? Anybody know? Frank, Frank, I'll just follow up with what you said. So it's very important for, for small businesses in South Carolina to take a new look at this law at the subsidies that are available. Because it is it's it's a it's not just a, you know, health insurance. It's not just the health or cost thing, it's actually competitive this thing, where if, if companies and in North Carolina and Georgia, you know, Tennessee etc, are taking advantage of what's been provided by the federal government to help them out and to really kind of, you know, lift, lift the economy, if those companies are taking advantage of it. But companies in South Carolina and entrepreneurs, because I know we have an online here entrepreneurs that you know, female and male entrepreneurs in South Carolina, are not taking advantage of this law in the subsidies, then they're going to be at a competitive disadvantage to, to everyone they compete against, because we're while companies in South Carolina are spending money on on, you know, benefits in their own, you know, insurance, these other companies can can use that their capital, to you know, develop better products to, you know, hire better people to pay the people more, etc. So it's a competitive competitiveness issue as well, that people need to need to be aware of Frank Knapp anybody else with the question? Ben Green In were full service independent brokerage, which means that we work for our clients, we work for Frank's small business chamber to to help people and we did not work for the insurance companies. Even though we work with many of them, we do not work for them. So that's that's a great benefit to our to all of our clients and folks we help out with as Frank said, we've actually been working with the chamber for seven years and we're business people that provide insurance solutions and not the other way around. We're not insurance people from from the start. In terms of solutions, we were we're number one in South Carolina for for signing people up for health insurance, particularly after our boat was was passed on March 11. We do a lot of group health insurance, we help a lot of folks with Medicare. And then we can also do things like help people with dental and vision, you know, disability, the supplemental sort of things life insurance, long term care, and that that's kind of led us into helping helping folks fill in the gaps for things like social security planning and Medicare and pre retirement planning that you can also tap into us for so, the ACA the marketplace aka prior to The American rescue American rescue plan that was passed on March the 11th. Just to give you a little bit of an overview on it. So it was for any individual really 18 to 65 or 18 to 64. That that needed health insurance, it was not offered health insurance through their employer. Okay. We're not offered affordable health and current health coverage through their employer. Open Enrollment was November the first to December 15, typically of every year, in South Carolina, you have three levels of plans. So you have a bronze plan, which did we cover 60% of, of bills versus 40%. On the one on the on the consumer side, you have a silver plan to cover 70%, you have a gold plan that covers 80%. And prior to the the ARPA, small businesses, and it's still the same, of course, small businesses, so under the age of fit under the number of 50 employees, there's no requirement to offer health insurance or any benefits for that matter. Okay. So that's, that is still the case, the income level was basically 100% to 400%. So if you if you can see this table here, if you're a single person, and you made $12,755, for or you're projected to make that for 2021, you actually did not qualify at all, for any subsidies, or any advanced tax credits based on your income to make the cost of health insurance affordable. Okay, if you made 12 107 $12,761. Or if you're projected to make that in 2021, you did qualify. And you could get a really, really nice subsidized plan. And on the high end of the scale, as a single person, it goes up to it went up to $51,040. projected for 2021. That's that's pre pre ARPA. Okay. The other thing is, unemployment did not matter. So if you receive some unemployment income, but it was not enough to get you to that know that 12,760 range, at least as a single person, or for a household of four, that $26,200 range, then you did not qualify for subsidies, you might qualify your your family might qualify for Medicaid, or some some other you know, a child health insurance program and something like that, but you did not qualify for subsidies to the marketplace, okay. And the bronze plans, the $0 plan $0 bronze plans, were an option for up to 250% of the poverty level. So if you, if you're a single person you made up to about $30,000. Typically, in a year, you would qualify for a $0 bronze plan $0 bronze plan, and we'll come back to that. And then finally, we're in what Frank has, has worked tirelessly, tirelessly for, and really champion for a long time, and now successfully has helped to bring to fruition is if you are a consumer that made more than 400% of the federal poverty level. So if you were a single person, you made $51,500 instead of $51,000, then you did not qualify for any subsidy at all, with with the ACA, and the ACA was great, because it provided a lot of health insurance for folks that would never have had it before. And so it did a lot of great things. But this was one of the drawbacks. And if you if you went over that level, if you're projected to go over that level of income, add that back at this mark of that 400% level or so as a family of $404,800. For example, if you went $1 over with your taxes, then you would not qualify for a subsidy. So that was a that was a big, big deal. And that was a big blow to affordability for a lot of people. So now where are we with with ARPA? So after March 11, a lot of things really changed the entire game, if you will has changed and we can get into a lot of questions on it. We're going to go through some good details for you. So first of all, first and foremost, open enrollment open backup. So initially it opened back up until I believe May the 15th from February 15 to May the 15th. It is now open back up until August the 15th. So literally almost the entire year now you for this year, because of COVID etc. You can get enrolled in so If you do not have coverage right now, you can give me a call, you can get my office call right now and get enrolled in coverage to start July the first up until literally June the 30. If you can call the office or you can, you know, contact us and get set up to, to get enrolled in coverage for July the first and then it starts every every month. So whenever you get covered that next first of the month is when you will get when you actually when your coverage actually starts. And so that's a this is a big, big deal, because we've had a lot of people that we've been able to get covered that we would not be able to get covered at all right now not with with the Affordable Care Act coverage. Second big thing that Frank talked about alluded to, was the income range now has gone from 100%, up to maybe 12 100% of poverty level. And so literally instead of you no single person, you know making $51,000 $51,040 and getting cut off, they can make depending on their age, they can make maybe $80,000, maybe even $90,000 because consumers with a with a poverty level, greater than 400%, there'll be eligible for subsidies now, for the first time ever, literally, in about what eight years, if their insurance costs exceed 8.5% of their income. And so I'm going to at the end of this presentation, I'm going to, or this talk, I'm going to show you an example of a family that's making their family for they're making $250,000 a year, and they still qualify for some subsidy. Okay, and that if we were having this talk back in February that this that would not be possible. So that's really, really exciting for a lot of folks. And then the couple of other things that have changed that are that are big, big time thing. So if you receive the $1, even $1 of unemployment in 2021. unemployment benefits, you qualify for a $0 silver plan. with enhanced health benefits, there are a few things you have to take in the button and turn the boxes to qualify for that. But that's a big, big deal. We did have $0 bronze plans that were an option for folks up to 250% of the poverty level, the $0 bronze plans are still available. But you now have some $0 silver plans, which that was that was something we had available about maybe five years ago, in 2015 2016, that that went away around that time, that's now back. And so you have an option for a new $0. Or in other words and regular people's terms free silver level plan low deductibles, for those that are for those that are up to 150% of the federal poverty limit. So your your single household to about 19,000 bucks a year, you will very likely qualify for euro dollar silver plan, family for up to $39,000 a year qualifies for a $0 silver plan. And then the last big thing that Frank mentioned, up to literally about 12 100% of the poverty level, you can get a subsidy based on your age, your income, your household, your taxable household. So that's, that is huge. And it has opened up the doors for a lot of people. So for small businesses and for entrepreneurs, like what does this mean? So as a small business under 50, there was no requirement anyways. But now, everyone, literally everyone in South Carolina, it's under the under 50 employees they need to evaluate, it would be very smart for them to evaluate their group health insurance versus their individual marketplace coverage. There were a lot of people who did not qualify for a subsidy at all. So let's say that 55 years old, they made you know a made $60,000 a year they wanted to get a gold plan plan was gonna they're gonna be looking at maybe $1,000 a month. Well, under the new law now under the the new, the new subsidies, the new the new game we have in town, they now qualify for some really good coverage at a much more affordable rate. And so literally everybody, unless you're making $400,000 a year or more, everybody needs to at least reevaluate the marketplace coverage versus group health insurance coverage, and see which one makes more sense for them. More employees, or many more employees are not eligible for the subsidies if they do not have a group plan in place. If you have a group health plan in place, you're not typically going to be eligible for the subsidies. We have a lot of companies coming to us evaluating whether or not it makes sense to drop their group plan or to do a little bit of a carve out with it to to protect is the opportunity for some of their employees to gain marketplace coverage and gain much more affordable access. The benefits, as we said, so higher income employees are, are more eligible as expanded enrollment. So even if you don't have insurance today, for whatever reason, you can still get it starting in July 1. If your employee if you have let employees go, if you have been let go, and you receive some unemployment income, or if you know, you will receive some unemployment income, we can help, we can help now, if you haven't, if you have a four if you have an affordable care act plan already, the other thing, the other big item is that there were some additional subsidies provided. So for example, Frank sent someone to us that we signed up on on March 31st, actually up in Greenville family for they made $100,000. And their their bill for their bronze plan was going to be I believe, $450 per month. And then literally, we took a look around April, the 11th. And their bills and magically gone down because of the new subsidies to $320 per month. So there's a savings of overnight by $130 per month, or 16 $100 per year for that for that family. And so even if you do already have a plan in place, you need to review it, you need to have someone that that has done this a couple of 1000 times, review it for you make sure you are you're accessing the new pricing that is available to you that you may not know anything about. And so what we, what we what we're trying to do, what we do now is we provide folks with with free marketplace education, and you can if you want to provide additional benefits to your employees, because a lot of you all have, you know have have have teams of 510 15. Folks, you can what we're encouraging companies do is provide them with with free marketplace education, so at least let them let your employees know that there is an open season. And let them know that there is enrollment assistance available, let them know that the subsidies have been have been improved and increase. And what we're doing with a lot of a lot of folks is they're there some some employees may or may only want to take the bronze plan, for example, it has a higher level of deductible. And so we are able to put in some voluntary supplemental benefits that will cover things like accidents, which are really important, important and kind of popular plans or critical illness, for example, it's covered things like cancer, that that folks or even like, you know, sort of short term disability type of plans that will protect people's paychecks if they they're out for a while to cover, you know, deductibles and cover, you know, cover kind of out of pocket costs. So so that's those are the things that we're starting to put in place for, for companies, as we're kind of redoing some of these, redoing some of the the tax credits for folks and also just kind of reviewing their their overall employee benefits. As I said, the the timeline is now February 15, to August the 15th. So if we get you signed up on August, the 15th, then your your that's going to be the last day that we can sign you up without any questions essentially. And the the, the the enrollment will start your plan will start September the first. So looking at real numbers, so this these are numbers from last year. So if you were a if you were a 63 year old, making $18,000 a year, you did qualify for a bronze plan that was $0. Okay. And you qualified for a silver plan, which is very good plan for $39, which is extremely affordable, like super affordable. You can see over here to the left, he got to a tax credit of 1200 $80. And so that brought down the cost of that coverage to $39 per month. However, post March 11. So magic has happened. And so that same silver level plan instead of it being $39 per month based on your income, it is now $0 it's now $0 I want to let let that sink in for a bit. So with a deductible of $250 which not many of you on the on the call have that that level deductible with you know, primary visit is $10 do you Their drugs are $5 copay, maximum out of pocket, the entire year is $700. Which there there are no group health insurance plans that provide that low of a maximum out of pocket. And this person can qualify for this coverage for $0. Okay, so that's, that's a big, big deal. family of four, making 30,000 a year, which a lot of South Carolinians fall in that range, they would have gotten a $0 bronze plan, but the the deductible is kind of high. Okay. So they would qualify for a and we would have encouraged them to get a silver level plan for $36 with a really low deductible. And, you know, great co pays, is 36 dot $37 a year. However, now, after March 11, this family is going to have $0 coverage, the mom and dad is going to have $0 coverage for with a silver level plan $250 deductible for each person. And 1400 out of pocket maximum for the entire family is $0. And then here's our family of four, making $100,000 a year, which is a good bit of money. Last year, they were paying $127, actually even into even into March of this year, because this new subsidies didn't kick into effect until April 1. So literally, when I signed that family from Greenville, up March the 31st, this is the type of this is literally the type of plan they're looking at. So $127 per per per month for the for the bronze plan. Now, they're looking at the $0 bronze plan, okay, they were looking at $772 per month, which is still very affordable for family for last year, with a with $100,000. Now they're looking at $662. So we're looking at about $100 $110 per month savings. Still, even for a family of four, they're only paying $660 per month for coverage that's really, really affordable. Because we have, we have corporate clients that are paying that per person for their coverage. So when this to show you all some real numbers to let you know that this stuff is real, and it's really having a great positive impact people's lives. And that's why that's why Frank and so many others champion really kind of raising the rates, that raising the income level for folks. The last family that I'll show you, I do not have I do not have an example for them for last year, because we wouldn't have run the example because we knew they wouldn't get any actual subsidy, okay. Their their subsidy for their their their price for Brian for plan last year would have been. But 12 $100.12 $130 per per per month, okay. At least this year. It's it's $1,089. So that $148 tax credit that I have highlighted, they at least they at least are getting that up until April 1 of this year, they would would get nothing. So literally This family is in the I think the 1,000% range for her actually 12 100% range for federal poverty level, quote, unquote, and they're getting still getting a subsidy. So I'll stop there and see if see if we have any questions, but wanted to let you all know that it really has changed greatly. Frank Knapp And thank you very much. I appreciate that. This is it's quite fascinating. And I know there are people who are watching who are going to want you to run the numbers for them. Personally, we won't ask you to do that right now. But we do are going to take some questions. We actually have a cig gave us something in the chat. His question was how do these plans compared to group plans that were grandfathered in as a as pre ACA insurance plans? Ben Green Stay? Great, great question. So the these plans so it's, um, it's hard to it's hard to compare with. It's hard to make a general statement, what we do is take a look at each individual kind of grandfathered plan. These plans do not they do not exclude any pre existing conditions. These plans are typically the network's it depends on it. It also depends on which carrier you're talking about. So if you're talking about Blue Cross Blue Shield or blue choice, for example, then the pre ACA grandfathered plans may have a slightly The larger network, if you're talking about United Healthcare or sitting there or something like that, then you may be looking at the same size network. But these plans, the ACA plans do not exclude any sort of pre existing conditions they cover, you know, they have to cover kind of the 10 basics, including mental rehabilitation, maternity coverage, all that stuff. And, and they, they fare, very compared, comparatively, they they're they're very, I guess, comparable to a lot of the grandfather, grandfather plans. And so we've, we have clients that have kept the grandfather plans, and we've had a number of clients, because they've been receiving increases every year, on the grandfather plans. We've had a number of clients in the last two years that have come over to either an updated group health insurance plan, or they are going into the marketplace for an ACA plan. Frank Knapp Ben, for employers that do not offer group health insurance wishes, most small businesses do not offer us some do, but most do not. Should those employers possibly help their employees make sure that they have the best deal they can with their individual health insurance? And how would they do that? Ben Green So 73% of employees expect their employer to offer information and help with with benefits, whether or not they're offering the benefits through the company or not. And so, employee employees are always looking to their employer to you know, that to help them out, give them information about benefits. So yes, we do have a lot of employees that will bring us in to help their individual employees, you know, navigate the marketplace, because it's free, our help is free. And we've done it a couple of 1000 times where versus you know, their their employee may have done it, you know, this might be the first time they've ever done it. And so they want to, they want to make sure that they get the right plan, first of all, and then also, a lot of them need assistance in picking the particular plans. And so it is important for employers to provide their employees with an opportunity for people to to talk about their own individual health insurance coverage or even life insurance coverage. Frank Knapp And bad you did make a point that that we had not discussed and that is a fact that you're nobody pays for your service. I mean, they don't pay you directly. There's no add on charge for your consultation is there. That's correct. There's not Anna M Can I jump in and just say something real quick, more to Frank. And then you mentioned the entrepreneurs and the micro business owners. And it's super important to remember that that includes gig workers, whether you're musicians or artists, whatever they are, and micro business and some of the small business owners simply, they're so caught up in what they're doing, and so scrambling not just for insurance, but for everything that they do, I'm one of them, that they're not hearing this message go out at all, and you have to meet them where they are. And it's getting late, you have another month and a half or something to get this news out and get these people on board. And I would make a huge push for doing in person events during the hours when you can actually see these people face to face, because I guarantee you most of the people that I talk with on a day to day basis, have no clue what's going on. Frank Knapp Thank you. And that's a good suggestion that we we are of course did this virtually to make it convenient. But it might be a good idea to try to do something early evening for Anna M is for the employers mostly who you're trying to reach. But when you're trying to reach individuals, like me, the small business owner or the micro business owner, you definitely have to consider that they cannot attend something like this. Nor do they even want to anymore. This we shouldn't sometimes, but I think it's time to step out and shake some hands and meet people face to face where they are. And I bet you most of them also don't understand. They don't have to pay you a fee for your service. That that if the price is what the price is. That's an important point to them. Ben Green Yep. Yeah, great points. And and we and you know, to that point, we, we have spoken literally, I've traveled to practically every small, small town, and large Town in South Carolina, you know, we speak at churches, the whole nine yards we're in we've signed people up in Bojangles, and McDonald's and Burger Kings and you know, hotels and whole nine yards. So we're absolutely willing to to go anywhere to to spread the message and make sure folks are getting covered because that there is there is literally no reason why someone should not have health insurance coverage at this point, particularly if they're if they're over that the minimum threshold of of income. And even if they are not, we have other options for them that we can put them in contact with. So there's, they're all excuses have been eliminated as far as folks not having insurance. Anna M Yes, I believe it's just a matter of education at this point is getting the news out in the right venue to the right people, because there's just some people who are not plugged into these types of things. And I can only reach so many people, just you know, I'm doing the best I can because I'm a poster child for what's going on here, the poster child for this so Frank Knapp and for those of you who don't know, Anna m, and she is the publisher and editor of F sweet magazine that encourage you to check it out online. Thank you. Um, anybody else with the question? Let me just also say how important it is if you know people who do not have any health insurance, because they felt they can't afford it. It is it is done to their benefit for them to sign up for one of these plans that they may be able to get for free. But it's also to your benefit, because the the uncompensated care for the uninsured goes against you eventually, if you if you pay for insurance, that it helps drive up the cost of premiums when people who are uninsured, get health care through the emergency rooms or something. So it's you're doing yourself a favor not only doing them a favor to get to tell them they need to check all this out, but you're doing yourself a favor if you're paying premiums for health insurance. And then one last thing over the last couple of years has been this effort to because the health insurance costs have gone up so high because the Premium Assistance didn't exist for certain for people making over a certain amount of money. There were these skimpy benefit plans. Ah, how is how is this comparing to some of those lesser benefit plans that are out there now that people pay less money for but of course get less benefits? Ben Green Yep. For for some of the folks that are making, you know, 100,000 bucks a year or you know, etc that did not qualify or even you know, 52,000 a year as a single person you know, and they they missed the the wind who buy $1,000 for subsidies um you know, you did have short term Plant short term plans that were available that did not cover pre existing conditions, which is a big, big deal. So you know, if you were if you're healthy, and you did not do not have any pre existing conditions, and you're okay with, you know, kind of going to like a, an 11 month period or a 22 month period, for example, those plans were feasible for for those folks. But the bottom line is that with with the with the reopening, if you will, of the of the gates, these wide gates for for folks that are qualifying for for really large subsidies, it makes sense for everyone to first stop here and look at the ACA look at the the marketplace plans, that that makes sense first, and if for whatever reason, they still cannot afford them, then we can look at other options. But we have a lot of folks that took a look at those plans maybe a year or two ago, Frank, and now they're coming back to the marketplace because it's providing the best overall coverage. Frank Knapp Okay, Ben, Does anybody else have a question? Ben, will you be following up with people? Ben Green Yes, I will. And if anyone has any questions, there are no stupid questions, please, please send them along. And we love to, you know, look forward to talking to folks individually and also in person going forward as well. And we're happy to happy to provide any any assistance we can with for your your folks. Just thank you once again, Frank, for for having us on. Frank Knapp Well, thank you, Ben. And again, Ben's information is on the screen right now, the telephone number, his email address, I encourage you to reach out. If he's unable to get back to you. This is an extremely important issue. It's important for you personally and for your family, and actually for the whole health insurance industry in the economy. So thank you all very much, please. You know, stay paying attention to this issue and the Sokka small business Chamber of Commerce has been very pleased to to share this with you and you have another question. No. Okay. Just let me chime in there. It's important. No, thank you. I appreciate it. And Okay, that's it. So we're gonna sign off. And Ben, thank you very much. And thank you, all of you who participated today. Thank you, you

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